X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 7FFFFA9E7C1F4B89B14116D179C846 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from n11a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.16]) by highonpots.com with MailEnable ESMTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 23:31:40 -0600 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n11.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 05:32:18 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.34] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 05:32:18 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: liquidwindows@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: papercrete@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52853 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 05:32:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m28.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 05:32:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n14a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.28) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 05:32:16 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n14.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 05:32:00 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.80] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 05:32:00 -0000 To: papercrete@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.28 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 X-Yahoo-Post-IP: 64.136.49.228 From: "Doug" X-Yahoo-Profile: liquidwindows MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list papercrete@yahoogroups.com; contact papercrete-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list papercrete@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 05:31:56 -0000 Subject: [papercrete] Re: Papercrete Vault over Greenhouse Reply-To: papercrete@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<By laying the papercrete on top of the greenhouse structure, I hope
to avoid cracking problems to the exterior walls.  Many of the
problems I've seen with cracks is when an item inside the papercrete
cast is too close to the edge or when there are air gaps.>

That sounds good! I believe it will work - try interior papercrete
with no sand, styrofoam and a fairly low percentage of portland - it
is much more elastic. You might not have to deal with the cracking
problem.

--- In papercrete@yahoogroups.com, hadishon <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> I have a digital camera and webmaster skills.  I'm planning on
> making a website to document my progress so that others may learn
> from my mistakes (and hopefully success).
>
> Doug,
>
> By laying the papercrete on top of the greenhouse structure, I hope
> to avoid cracking problems to the exterior walls.  Many of the
> problems I've seen with cracks is when an item inside the
papercrete
> cast is too close to the edge or when there are air gaps.  By my
> design, I hope to avoid this problem.  What I am concerned with is
> the interior.  I have been thinking of plastering the inside of the
> vault.  This is where I think cracks may appear.  On the good side,
> the cracks on the inside won't be a structure problem and would
just
> have to be patched.
>
> I've written some ideas about Tom's problem with expansion under
his
> topic.
>
> I haven't built a small model using hoops, plastic, and so on.  I
> hope to do so soon.  I will post results when I do.
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- In papercrete@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" <liquidwindows@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > This will certainly be interesting to see if you can get this to
> > work - expansion and contraction rates of steel are different
than
> > papercrete and rebarred papercrete fences have cracked near the
> rebar
> > points. Papercrete does have some elasticity however - if you
> weather
> > seal it correctly you can minimize the possible problem -
Missouri
> > has less extreme weather than some other areas but humidity may
> pose
> > a big problem in your initial drying - you might look into a
large
> > commercial dehumidifier.
> >
> > An artist in Alpine Texas has had some problems with separation
at
> > the point in his house that he used a wood beam because of the
> > expansion differences.  Have you built a small model using the
> steel
> > substructure to see if any problems develop?  You can put a small
> > model through some temperature extremes to see what happens
fairly
> > quickly.
> >
> > --- In papercrete@yahoogroups.com, steve chiekovski
> <stechiekov@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > For greenhouses I suggest a review of http:///www.solviva.com
> > > and for vaults http://www.calearth.org is worth looking into.
> > > 
> > > You sound to me like a true pioneer and are certainly an
> > innovator.  I hope you keep us posted as your project continues. 
> It
> > would be wonderful if you posted us some photos as you move stage
> by
> > stage through your construction.
> > >
> > >
> > > hadishon <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > This is my first post to this group.  I have read all of the
> > > archives and I am very interested in papercrete.
> > >
> > > I have learned about papercrete from my father who has always
> had
> > an
> > > interest in non-convectional (from today's standpoint) building
> > > methods.  I have been reading and studying everything I can on
> the
> > > subject of papercrete and general building methods.  I have
done
> > > several test using papercrete and found it to be a great method
> to
> > > build.
> > >
> > > I would like to share my ideas on building my house and if you
> have
> > > any comments, it would be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > I am in the process of designing my future home in Mid-
> Missouri. 
> > > This is a humid and wet (at times) area and I have taken
> > precautions
> > > to keep the papercrete as dry as possible. 
> > >
> > > I'm planning on starting to produce blocks (in a greenhouse to
> > avoid
> > > as much moisture as I can) within the next  month.  I hope to
> have
> > > most of the house finish by mid summer.
> > >
> > > My plan is to erect a 26' x 100'  semi-circular steel
greenhouse
> on
> > > a thick ruble trench/pad and then cover the greenhouse with
> > > papercrete.  The steel hoops are 1 5/8" in diameter and will be
> on
> > > 4' centers with truss ties.  The steel pipes will be well
> anchored
> > > into the ground and will connect to the greenhouse hoops a few
> > > (haven't yet determined exactly how high yet) feet above
grade. 
> > > (basically, we will have a straight piece of pipe that will go
> > below
> > > frost line and above grade to elevate the greenhouse on a stem
> wall.
> > >
> > > We would like 7' flat walls around the perimeter of the house
so
> > the
> > > idea is to raise the greenhouse some and then build the
exterior
> > > walls inside the greenhouse.  Basically, we don't want to use
7'
> > > stem walls and have the house to have a 20' ceiling.  So
> basically
> > > we are compromising with a smaller stem wall and the wall inset
> > from
> > > the exterior of the greenhouse.  The finish product would be a
> > > segmental vault on a 7' papercrete wall with some steel pipes
> cut
> > > out and some that will protrude from the papercrete wall for
> > > buttresses.
> > >
> > > Once the wall is built, we will be laying blocks onto the
> > greenhouse
> > > plastic to cover the roof and make the papercrete vault.  We
> will
> > > also be building the haunches thicker then the top of the arch
> to
> > > help direct the thrust of the vault to the walls.
> > >
> > > During construction, the exterior of the vault will be covered
> with
> > > plastic if it starts to rain.  Once the exterior is done, we
> will
> > > take the plastic off from the inside and plaster the inside of
> the
> > > vault.
> > >
> > > After completing the vault and the papercrete has thoroughly
> dried,
> > > will we seal and paint the exterior.
> > >
> > > I have read about people building domes from blocks alone and
on
> > top
> > > of wire netting.  I have not seen anyone build a dome/vault
> using a
> > > greenhouse for the form.  I believe it will work, the only
> question
> > > would be how long until it will dry completely.  I'm sure the
> > > plastic will slow the drying process of the mortar but once it
> > > firms, I can take the plastic off from the inside to aid the
> > > breathing and drying of the mortar.
> > >
> > > Again, I would appreciate any comments from you or anyone else
> you
> > > know that has experience in papercrete vaults and arches. 
> > >
> > > Thank you for your time,
> > > Michael Schutt
> > > Madison MO
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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